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So, I have come to the conclusion that brakeless is pure danger. How long will it be until some little turd's bike has no brakes and he gets flattened by any number of hazards. In this litigious society, it is not a stretch by his parents to sue a manufacturer because their factory guy, who just happens to be the kids idol, is on TV all the time with no brakes. This shit is coming. People with connections to the manufacturers, please let them know this is a definite possibility. I'm gonna hip Robbie to it and maybe Chris too.
Manufacturer liability for brakeless bmx bikes?
Just hear me out...
by bennyt4130
31 October 2011 - 01:09 AM
Post #1
MultiQuote
31 October 2011 - 01:21 AM
Post #2
No manufacturer sells a complete brakeless bike, they generally come with an old style caliper even if they don't have 990 mounts. They sell frames without brakes but the onus is on the bike builder so there is probably very little liability on the manufacturer or sellers end. The liability would be on the person or persons parents who chose to remove the brake or not install one.
Let the kids ride brakeless if they want, sheesh. I see jackasses all the time who cannot ride with brakes. Chris and Robbie don't care and not many do.
Let the kids ride brakeless if they want, sheesh. I see jackasses all the time who cannot ride with brakes. Chris and Robbie don't care and not many do.
31 October 2011 - 01:29 AM
Post #3
I'll second what Jake said. When I had the shop, all bikes came with brakes. For frames, they either had removable posts included, or they came with a caliper brake. When we sold a bike that was brakeless, the brake came with it and it was up to the owner.
Doug
Doug
31 October 2011 - 01:50 AM
Post #4
I understand that no bike in the US can be sold from a shop without all of the safety features. Duh. Of course there is gonna be a brake specced on every bike. What I'm getting at is the grey area of the brakeless trend. These kids see their heros every weekend on TV not running brakes. What do they do as a result of the influence(which, by the way, is the job of a factory sponsored rider),but take their brakes off to be like their guy. That is a form of negligence by the manufacturer who employs the rider whom influence the youth. I'm telling you guys, this could be a problem. I have a cadre of buddies who became lawyers and they agree. This is a real risk to manufacturers that don't require their riders to run brakes.
BTW, Spur, how you feelin'?
BTW, Spur, how you feelin'?
31 October 2011 - 02:01 AM
Post #5
I am doing better, thanks for asking.
People may try to sue, but people try to sue because coffee is too hot. So are people going to sue manufacturers because their sponsored rider rides a ramp and a kid goes out and gets hurt trying to emulate them? I am not buying that this is a big concern nor will it ever be. If that were the case I can go out and sue Bianchi because I can convert their frames to a fixed gear with no brakes. I can convert any bike to be brakeless. I can sue anyone for anything, whether the suit has any merit is another story. Bike manufacturers have attorneys too, just saying.
People may try to sue, but people try to sue because coffee is too hot. So are people going to sue manufacturers because their sponsored rider rides a ramp and a kid goes out and gets hurt trying to emulate them? I am not buying that this is a big concern nor will it ever be. If that were the case I can go out and sue Bianchi because I can convert their frames to a fixed gear with no brakes. I can convert any bike to be brakeless. I can sue anyone for anything, whether the suit has any merit is another story. Bike manufacturers have attorneys too, just saying.
31 October 2011 - 02:05 AM
Post #6
You are right but our opinions don't really have anything to do with what a judge might say. Bottom line is to require pros on tv to run a brake. Just makes sense. The ABA would not let someone race without pads for their own liability issues. DewCup and XGames might want to think about that.
31 October 2011 - 02:14 AM
Post #7
If I decide to ride my bike after I alter it and make it unsafe that is on me not the manufacturer. I think every attorney and judge recognizes this. The first thing they are going to ask, did the bike come with brakes and did you take them off? I think the manufactures do enough, and I think brakeless riding is incredible.
31 October 2011 - 02:16 AM
Post #8
Yea, I'd like to see the pros running brakes even if they aren't using them, but if you f-up on a 20-30 foot ramp/jump having brakes might not make any difference. Once someone decides to remove the brakes on their bike I would think it's on the rider if they get hurt. I hope personal responsibility still counts for something.
31 October 2011 - 02:31 AM
Post #9
Once again, I know and agree with what you are saying. I'm not so sure people outside of our subculture would see it the same as us. I know a few insurance adjusters and insurance lawyers that felt very differently from what seems right.
I was down at the 9th St. Halloween Jam yesterday and there were tons of little kids there riding very expensive bikes. Many of those bikes had no brakes. These kids could not even bunny hop a curb and they were riding Aaron Ross signature bikes with no brakes. Of course these are amazing bikes which have a design capacity built in to go brakeless which they were utilizing(running brakeless). Cool? Yes. Safe? No. These bikes are advertised to "be compatible with optional brake systems" to paraphrase. To me, that inadvertently advertises brakeless riding.
Perhaps there is a legal stance on this I am not aware of.
I was down at the 9th St. Halloween Jam yesterday and there were tons of little kids there riding very expensive bikes. Many of those bikes had no brakes. These kids could not even bunny hop a curb and they were riding Aaron Ross signature bikes with no brakes. Of course these are amazing bikes which have a design capacity built in to go brakeless which they were utilizing(running brakeless). Cool? Yes. Safe? No. These bikes are advertised to "be compatible with optional brake systems" to paraphrase. To me, that inadvertently advertises brakeless riding.
Perhaps there is a legal stance on this I am not aware of.
31 October 2011 - 02:58 AM
Post #10
[quote name='Spur' date='30 October 2011 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1320027278' post='467542']
If I decide to ride my bike after I alter it and make it unsafe that is on me not the manufacturer. I think every attorney and judge recognizes this. The first thing they are going to ask, did the bike come with brakes and did you take them off? I think the manufactures do enough, and I think brakeless riding is incredible.
Yeah but you are not an 11 year old kid who would sacrifice his health to be just like Aaron Ross and also happens to be a minor with a a rich daddy who has friends.
If I decide to ride my bike after I alter it and make it unsafe that is on me not the manufacturer. I think every attorney and judge recognizes this. The first thing they are going to ask, did the bike come with brakes and did you take them off? I think the manufactures do enough, and I think brakeless riding is incredible.
Yeah but you are not an 11 year old kid who would sacrifice his health to be just like Aaron Ross and also happens to be a minor with a a rich daddy who has friends.
31 October 2011 - 04:45 AM
Post #11
skateboards don't have brakes. They ride street and parks. You'll never see a skateboard with brakes on x games or dew just to set a good example.
brakeless has been around for years now... I'm not saying it's the safest thing. Obviously it is not. I agree with much of what you say about the hazards, Benny. There are occasionally collisions in parks between bikes, and between bikes and skateboards. Arguably brakes could help mitigate the severity. I'm sure plenty of little goof balls have been put in harms way in traffic too, due to no brakes.
Not the best trend for safety. But, we can't stop it. Plus it's awesome.
brakeless has been around for years now... I'm not saying it's the safest thing. Obviously it is not. I agree with much of what you say about the hazards, Benny. There are occasionally collisions in parks between bikes, and between bikes and skateboards. Arguably brakes could help mitigate the severity. I'm sure plenty of little goof balls have been put in harms way in traffic too, due to no brakes.
Not the best trend for safety. But, we can't stop it. Plus it's awesome.
31 October 2011 - 05:02 AM
Post #12
31 October 2011 - 05:03 AM
Post #13
As always, I appreciate the response, Steve. Having worked around some pretty hazardous shit for years, I can say that most people who are experiencing this don't know the differenc e.
I'm just all pissed about the folks who get destoyed every month and I swear to god this brakeless thing was a pact and has become the trend in BMX. In track bikes, u best know how to ride or get the fuck out of the way.
I'm just all pissed about the folks who get destoyed every month and I swear to god this brakeless thing was a pact and has become the trend in BMX. In track bikes, u best know how to ride or get the fuck out of the way.
31 October 2011 - 05:05 AM
Post #14
Closed course, professional riders. Bikes are sold with brakes. I would say the manufacturers are as safe as they can be.
Stupids kid's parents could also say... I saw that XYZ pro getting 15 foot airs out of a mongo ramp so I boought my kid his "signature" bike at WalMart and when he tried it he broke his neck...
Bottom line, anyone can sue anyone else at anytime for anything. Right or wrong, they might even win. Not saying I agree one way or the other it just is.
It is for this reason that the commercial where the guy drives his Nissan truck in front of a jumbo jet and "catches" the front landing gear in his bed to make for a safe landing has a disclaimer at the bottom... REALLY? I think any idiot who would risk getting past airline security and attempt this because he/she thinks his 1/2-ton truck can take a 747 in the bed deserves whatever he or she gets.
Stupids kid's parents could also say... I saw that XYZ pro getting 15 foot airs out of a mongo ramp so I boought my kid his "signature" bike at WalMart and when he tried it he broke his neck...
Bottom line, anyone can sue anyone else at anytime for anything. Right or wrong, they might even win. Not saying I agree one way or the other it just is.
It is for this reason that the commercial where the guy drives his Nissan truck in front of a jumbo jet and "catches" the front landing gear in his bed to make for a safe landing has a disclaimer at the bottom... REALLY? I think any idiot who would risk getting past airline security and attempt this because he/she thinks his 1/2-ton truck can take a 747 in the bed deserves whatever he or she gets.
31 October 2011 - 05:13 AM
Post #15
Oh, and I think no brakes is lame, myself. I was attempting to ride a bike park and some guy blows right on front of me, I grab my brakes to miss him and was just happy no to cause a problem.
Well he has some kinda following at the park and mouths off to all his friends that I almost hit him and he had no brakes so he just powered through... And then one of the guys I was with said I had to get out of the bowl. Why? Because some a-hole can't afford brakes? Or maybe he is too cool to run them?
How about if you are in a public park, full of various riders, of various skill levels, you have a way to control your bike?
One last thing... there is nothing more ghetto than a kid slamming his foot up against his back tire to stop.
Well he has some kinda following at the park and mouths off to all his friends that I almost hit him and he had no brakes so he just powered through... And then one of the guys I was with said I had to get out of the bowl. Why? Because some a-hole can't afford brakes? Or maybe he is too cool to run them?
How about if you are in a public park, full of various riders, of various skill levels, you have a way to control your bike?
One last thing... there is nothing more ghetto than a kid slamming his foot up against his back tire to stop.
This post has been edited by oldschoolbmx: 31 October 2011 - 05:16 AM
31 October 2011 - 05:15 AM
Post #16
it's just how it's done now, old timers.
Don't take it personally. Most of the people in skateparks are KIDS. We are old. Kids are thinking and behaving like kids and conversely, we are thinking and behaving like..."old".
Brakeless is hard on shoes though, well, one of them at least.
Don't take it personally. Most of the people in skateparks are KIDS. We are old. Kids are thinking and behaving like kids and conversely, we are thinking and behaving like..."old".
Brakeless is hard on shoes though, well, one of them at least.
31 October 2011 - 05:29 AM
Post #17
Steve, as a site, I say we weigh in on this. Kids will get fucked up either way but we should at least try.
31 October 2011 - 05:31 AM
Post #18
S.Brothers, I know, you are right. This guy was in his 40s though! I'm 41 and I think was older than me. All the kids there were really cool. Some were asking about my really old Torker (it was a late 90s mid school).
This post has been edited by oldschoolbmx: 31 October 2011 - 05:33 AM
31 October 2011 - 05:35 AM
Post #19
While this is a valid thought by someone trying to protect the manufactures, it really isn't the issue it could be....Thank God!!
This wouldn't be any different than forcing pro riders to wear helmets and pads. There just isn't a concern at this point. I think back in the day there was a concern about safety equipment and setting the right example for kids. However the early days of street riding with the backlash against the corporate sponsorship looks have put an end to that.
If you stretched this same thought further showing pictures of a sponsored rider could push a rider to attempt the same trick being done in the photo and hurt themselves. Fortunately this also isn't an issue because if it was our sport would be short lived!
This wouldn't be any different than forcing pro riders to wear helmets and pads. There just isn't a concern at this point. I think back in the day there was a concern about safety equipment and setting the right example for kids. However the early days of street riding with the backlash against the corporate sponsorship looks have put an end to that.
If you stretched this same thought further showing pictures of a sponsored rider could push a rider to attempt the same trick being done in the photo and hurt themselves. Fortunately this also isn't an issue because if it was our sport would be short lived!
31 October 2011 - 05:42 AM
Post #20
NBL 49a, I respect your point. I understand where u r coming from. I stand corrected until the next kid gets smashed.
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