[Just..Me..Chillin']

Not flaming or calling anyone out - just thgt I'd mention for cautionary reasons.

There's a dyd currently listed on ebay as just a frame, where the seller even questions its authenticity - here's the thing and main reason for concern ---- as most know and the screen name may suggest, I am a JMC afficienado and because of my childhood connect to the dyd frameset I've been a gatherer of info throughout the yrs - every time I saw one listed or offered over the yrs on ebay or any site i happened to see, I kept list of all those I know in the collective (Started before the dyd registers on VBMX) and whether or not they had they're og color or not - that said...

i'll try to keep it short - tho the serial is of a frame that has yet to surface - the time frame for that serial number places it in the era that machined bb and chain stay brace was being offered * the frame in question doesn't have either characteristic --- dyd when first released only had the braced hind the bb, somewhere between 84256-84272 they added the machined bb which was only offered for a short time,, that trait was then lost between 84440-84506 and they reverted back to just the brace (which was lost as well 84694)

As far as looks the headtube seems a tad more lax as well - I asked for a TT length but was given a 19" reply, which is a length not even offered on any model.
Personally in my opinion I'd guess its a st'd long with an altered stamped serial (which also looks a bit suspect)

So I'm not saying yeah or nay - what I am saying however is I'd steer clear, rather safe then sorry.

(On a positive side note the seller also has a very nice [what appears to be legit] damn nice survivor set listed as well)

[I am the owl...]

hmmm... he says Jim verified its legit?

[jz56oval]

What does DYD stand for? Thanks

[OLDSKOOLPK]

jz56oval, on 29 March 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

What does DYD stand for? Thanks

Darrell
Young
Design

[jz56oval]

Thanks... I knew that... I feel like such a dummy.

[Just..Me..Chillin']

Jim can verify a serial number - but without it in hand or definitive physical inspection .... The dude stated the frame TT is 19" - shadows were 18.5 dyd were 19.5 - nothing they made had a 19" --- don't sound right - not to mention all the ones documented within that procession had both the machined bb as well as the brace - before and after that - makes on sense one wouldn't have had either ...

As I mention the number is not of one that has surfaced in recent yrs (by recent I mean the last 12yrs, I have been watching buying hunting dyd sets since 2000, I know have owned or happened past most that are in the visible scene)

So the number can be duped if its a number of one not in collector hands already - hell the list only amounts to 50 dyd sets known at hand outta 950 made - so if you know of the list on VBMX it's easy to make up a fake - all it takes is a stamp .....

[cornfed]

If it is fake, it's a damn good one. Everything about it looks good to me. The seller probably didn't measure correctly.

That list I compiled does not have every # known on it. When I started compiling that list about ten years ago, some owners PM'd what they had but asked not to post it. So...

The process to fake one would not be easy. First, the fakester would have to select a # , run it past Jim for info. If it were one that's already in possession - red flag in my eyes. To get all the mfring, finish, construction techniques, etc AND get a number correct would hard to fake, but I guess anything is possible.

[Mark Mc]

The SN, the letters and the numbers look to be different sizes. Is that normal or not? Could that be compared to others?

What I don't get is it's beat. Why fake something, then appear to let it sit for ages, and then list/sell?

Good on the seller however for laying it all out.

And who is the guy he mentions? Mahaffey?

[S.Brothers]

Heath Mahaffey was a notorious purveyor of fake stuff a few years back.

[Just..Me..Chillin']

That's why I didn't wanna elevate this to a witch hunt - the seller is pretty legit In the fact he expresses allot of detail ....

As for faking one - I disagree - it would be relatively easy ---- the stamps don't match as Mc mentions - I've owned five dyd framesets and two other solo frames and all the serials were stamped similar to one another (I still own two) - none resembled the sketchiness of this one .... Hell the seller even states his concerns even after Jim verified the number - for what it's worth a shadow has the same geomotry as a dyd and unless you measure the top tube it's not visible by eye (only an inch difference in top tube length) and if someone put dyd decals (og were in abundence a few yrs ago) it's even harder to tell - Heath was infamous for scam - a stamp close enuff and the knowledge of the frame differences makes it all too easy. Especially it the interested parties aren't that well versed.

Here's a copy of my notes and time frames - and as you can see the number is one smack dab in the era of the machining and brace


SERIAL NUMBER / ORIGINAL FACTORY FINISH* / CS BRACE / MACHINED BOTTOM BRACKET

1) DYXP1 - red/brace
2) DY8402 - red/brace
3) DY8406 - red/brace
4) DY8408 - red/brace
5) DY8457 - red/brace
6) DY8471 - red/brace
7) DY84109 - red/brace
8) DY84180 - red/brace
9) DY84256 - chr/brace
10) DY84272 - chr/brace/MBB
11) DY84294 - chr/brace/MBB
12) DY84312 - chr/brace/MBB
13) DY84318 - red /brace /MBB
14) DY84343 - red/brace/MBB
1 5) DY84374 - /brace/MBB
16) DY84383 - chr/brace/MBB
17) DY84417 - chr/brace/MBB
18) DY84440 - chr/brace/MBB
19) DY84499 - chr/brace
20) DY84503 - chr/brace
21) DY84520 - red/brace
22) DY84557 - wht/brace
23) DY84574 - wht
24) DY84590 - wht
25) DY84591 - wht/brace
26) DY84594 - wht/brace
27) DY84595 - wht
28) DY84596 - red
29) DY84628 - chr/brace
30) DY84642 - /brace
31) DY84660 - blu/brace
32) DY84661 - red
33) DY84691 - chr/no brace
34) DY84694 - chr
35) DY8505 - red
36) DY8545 - chr
37) DY8548 - chr
38) DY8570 - chr
39) DY8579 - chr
40) DY8595 - wht
41) DY85163 - chr
42) DY85185 - wht
43) DY85195 - chr
44) DY85196 - chr
45) DY85201 - chr
46) DY85202 - chr
47) DY85219 - chr
48) DY85228 - chr
49) DY85233 - chr
50) DY85250 - chr

*Notes factory produced finish. Frame may not still be original color.

[brycebarker]

would the serial number without the DY be of a frame that would be close to those dimensions. a shadow or a long. maybe it is a jmc and someone is/was trying to make it something else? no doubt the serial number is suspect.

[Just..Me..Chillin']

That's exactly it - I'm not as well versed with the shadow changes - I'm not sure if they were ever available with the machined bb and brace between the chain stays - I can't remember ever seeing those traits on any other models then the DYD and the AP for a short time --- I wanna say I'm pretty sure the long and shadow never had those traits (tho I do vaguely remember someone maybe owning a rare team rider's shadow with a machined bb).

As I stated before the shadow and DYD share the same geometries (angles and more or less feel) but the tt on the DYD is an 1" longer making the wheelbase length an inch longer. So by eye it's easy to dupe, but a proper measurement would tell all.

A long has a more relaxed headtube angle so it a bit more noticeable unless the pic is taken askew.

The other thing to consider was that Heath also got caught rechroming stuff (illegally) so he may have altered it altogether and rechromed it - but the fact we as collectors knew/know a bit more detail like when certain models were offered and/or when changes took place in tubing and such - regardless how you cut it this frame doesn't fit the window. I wouldn't fuck with it, personally.

[TrulyOdd]

post the pics of it for reference.

[daripper]

I know this isnt the place, but for some reason I cant get onto Vintage anymore and they wont answer my emails for log in help.

So..... here is the serial for my F/F set that is not mentioned above
DY 85195, Chrome.

;)

This post has been edited by daripper: 02 April 2013 - 08:39 AM

[Just..Me..Chillin']

Cool thanks finally hit 50 - from the last of'em I less - at the time most were being exported ... Did you get bars for it then as well ? We're they knurled or not ?

Patrick - not my pics to post, feel sorta bad as it is cause the guy is "pretty" open in his description and feeling towards it - but the measurement he gave me after the fact are sketchy too, if he knows enuff to think its off and he has another he's selling at the same time - then what's with giving me a measurement that isn't correct for any model JMC offered - it should be either an 18.5 (shadow/long) or 19.5 (dyd,ap), the chrome has too much patina to look as though it was altered ... And he never added that info either after I asked thru the site and I'm sure others have asked as well.

Again not saying that or this for absolute - but if forced to decide I'd walk just because of so many red flags.

[Kerry]

The serial number is as ugly as Bea Arthur....never seen a Dy like that

[cornfed]

Jim told me he did make a few Shadows w/ the MBB. I have only seen one surface.

I guess if it were not made completely from scratch and it were just a different model JMC modified, that would be much easier to fake.If someone cut apart a Shadow to look like a DYD, yeah, that would be pretty easy. Really all you would have to do is replace the TT and DT and the serial #'d dropout.

[cornfed]

D'oh! I didn't see he has two. I was looking at 84691!

The other totally looks fake!

[Just..Me..Chillin']

Yeah the f/f set he's selling looks legit - the solo frame is the bastardized long or shadow ... What I don't understand is why the two aren't measured along side one another if there reason to question ....

The seller states just enough to cover himself - which is atleast better then not mentioning any reason for alarm at all.

[ToddH]

#33 is on ebay right now. http://www.ebay.com/...=item23295d12dc

Serial dy 84372 isnt listed in that list, same seller.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item232964e5f6

is this the seller we are talking about? I like to educate myself.

This post has been edited by ToddH: 03 April 2013 - 03:10 AM