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mongoosedrummer

Oxilic Acid is Stupid

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This OxalicAcid hype has got to end, seriously... For the sake of the environment and your bank account!!!

 

Many professional metal finishers know very well, pure vinegar works just as well as Oxalic Acid (or even better) to remove rust from Chromed and Nickel plated metals/parts.

 

It costs pennies compared to OA and can be used several times even after it's dirty...

 

Why all this harsh chemical stuff? Flushing that garbage into our toilets = flushing into our eventual drinking water supply...

Dumping into sewers/drains = Dumping into streams and rivers

 

That sucks, really bad.

 

Just soak your parts in plain old white vinegar for at least 48 hours... Scrub, rinse and wipe with clear oil to protect... No WD-40 either! It eventually eats away at metals... Use frickin' Canola or Corn oil! Easy peasy.

 

Acid is for old stoners!!! Stay away!

 

VINEGAR!!! VINEGAR!!! VINEGAR!!!

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Oxalic Acid is actually an "organic acid". It occurs naturally in a wide variety of plant foods. The oxalic acid I've used is a thick paste... a little dab does it and it kind of vanishes into the cloth when you wipe it off.

 

I've seen that other kind though that people use for liquid dips and yeah... some investigation into the best means of disposal for that concentration is probably in order.

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The general accepted use in the OS-Community of this shit is in a diluted form from concentrate and has been crazily hyped by a few select BMX'rs here and on Vintage as the wonder rust remover... One thread purporting it's benefits to the restoring crowd has nearly 20K hits!!!

 

I just think it's dumb... And toxic. Plus, most of us old bastards don't need any more acid in our lives (purple micro-dot, sunshine, windowpane, double barrel.. whatever... :blink: ) and there are usually kids around the same places we restore our parts at home... They don't need to be anywhere near this shit.

 

BTW, Vinegar is an "organic acid" too, but it won't lead to any of this:

 

Emergency Overview for Oxilic Acid:

 

Danger! May be fatal if swallowed. Corrosive. Causes severe irritation and

burns to the skin, eyes and respiratory tract. Harmful if inhaled or absorbed

with skin. May cause kidney damage.

 

Routes of Entry: Inhalation, Ingestion, Eye Contact and Skin Contact

 

Target Organs: Eyes, Skin, Respiratory System and Kidneys

 

Skin Contact: Skin contact may cause irritation with symptoms of redness, swelling, itching

and pain.

 

Eye Contact: Eye contact may cause irritation with symptoms of redness, swelling, itching

and pain. May cause Corneal injury.

 

Inhalation: Inhalation of Oxalic Acid produces irritation of respiratory tract, cough and

vomiting.

 

Ingestion: Oxalic Acid is toxic. As little as 5 gms may be fatal. Ingestion may cause

Gastroenteritis, burns, nausea, vomiting, shock and convulsions. Oxalic Acid

removes Calcium from the blood as Calcium Oxalate. Calcium Oxalate thus

formed might precipitate in the kidney tubules.

 

Chronic Exposure: Inhalation of Oxalic Acid over a long period of time may cause inflammation

of respiratory tract and might result in weight loss. It may also result in

Urolithiasis (the formation of urinary stones).

 

Hazards Identification

--------------------------

POISON! DANGER! MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. CORROSIVE. CAUSES SEVERE IRRITATION AND BURNS TO SKIN, EYES, AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. MAY CAUSE KIDNEY DAMAGE.

 

SAF-T-DATA™ Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Health Rating: 4 - Extreme (Poison)

Flammability Rating: 1 - Slight

Reactivity Rating: 1 - Slight

Contact Rating: 3 - Severe (Corrosive)

Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES

Storage Color Code: White (Corrosive)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Oxalic acid is corrosive to tissue. When ingested, oxalic acid removes calcium from the blood. Kidney damage can be expected as the calcium is removed from the blood in the form of calcium oxalate. The calcium oxalate then obstructs the kidney tubules.

 

Inhalation:

Harmful if inhaled. Can cause severe irritation and burns of nose, throat, and respiratory tract.

Ingestion:

Toxic! May cause burns, nausea, severe gastroenteritis and vomiting, shock and convulsions. May cause renal damage, as evidenced by bloody urine. Estimate fatal dose is 5 to 15 grams.

Skin Contact:

Can cause severe irritation, possible skin burns. May be absorbed through the skin.

Eye Contact:

Oxalic acid is an eye irritant. It may produce corrosive effects.

Chronic Exposure:

May cause inflammation of the upper respiratory tract. Prolonged skin contact can cause dermatitis, cyanosis of the fingers and possible ulceration. May affect kidneys.

Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:

Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems, or impaired kidney or respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance.

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This is great info. I wonder why no one presented it sooner? All these guys in this hobby and no one knew that this was just as good as OA with less environmental impact and cheaper to boot?

 

The reason OA is so hyped is because it works awesome and no one has presented alternatives that equalled the effects of OA (until now).

 

I'm anxious to give this a try. One question, will vinegar harm alloy parts? Cleaning rust from spokes is a heluva chore. I'd like to be able to pull the guts out of my hubs and throw a whole wheel in the bath. You can not do that with Oxalic Acid as it harms the alloys.

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oxialic acid is found in drinking tea. and other plants and foods. look it up.

 

 

Leaves no more footprint than weed and feed or lawn fertilizer or human waste which is worse than any acid...based on the mc donalds , taco bell, and synthetic crap ppl eat.

 

imho...the thread should be called, rid the planet of friggin wd-40..... yes...that is a great rant. hmmm.

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This is great info. I wonder why no one presented it sooner? All these guys in this hobby and no one knew that this was just as good as OA with less environmental impact and cheaper to boot?

 

The reason OA is so hyped is because it works awesome and no one has presented alternatives that equalled the effects of OA (until now).

 

I'm anxious to give this a try. One question, will vinegar harm alloy parts? Cleaning rust from spokes is a heluva chore. I'd like to be able to pull the guts out of my hubs and throw a whole wheel in the bath. You can not do that with Oxalic Acid as it harms the alloys.

yes...it will eat aluminuim. nonmagnetic metals.

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Bummer -- back to scrubbing my spokes the hard way :)

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Bummer -- back to scrubbing my spokes the hard way :)

 

 

I learnt to scrub my spoke without an instruction manual, very early on in life. A natural I guess.

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Ive seen the vinegar/malassas/ect alternatives mentioned. I think the biggest thing is most people dont want to wait 2 days.

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I am gonna try the vinegar method just to see if it works this weekend.

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Oh Lee, if you scrub your spoke more than once you are playing with it. :comedy:

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Sounds good :help: but I would need a few gallons to soak a frame.

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Is it the same method, take it out periodically and wipe it down with the white 3m pads, etc?

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Sounds good :help: but I would need a few gallons to soak a frame.

 

You won't. Just enough to cover the part/object. It's damn cheap too... :wink:

 

You can re-use it too even after it's "dirty" it won't stop working any better like OA will after one soak...

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Is it the same method, take it out periodically and wipe it down with the white 3m pads, etc?

 

No, I have used a toothbrush to knock some of the heavier stuff off though once soaking. Then once I took the stuff out, wiped it clean and threw a coat of wax on it.

Edited by CKTA

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Sounds good :help: but I would need a few gallons to soak a frame.

 

You won't. Just enough to cover the part/object. It's damn cheap too... :wink:

 

You can re-use it too even after it's "dirty" it won't stop working any better like OA will after one soak...

 

Even in a flat container, just big enough to fit the frame, it's going to take a few gallons. I would guess more than 5 gallons. I think you can find gallons of vinegar at Costco for about $2/gallon -- but other places it's usually more. ~If~ you can cover the entire frame with 5 gallons, that's at least $10 right there.

 

If you go the OA route, you can use water from the tap and a 12 oz bucket of Dap Wood Bleach (OA) is about $10 give or take. You can probably get 2 to 3 uses out of that bucket.

 

All-in-all, as a rough estimate, the cost of using OA is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of the vinegar. I don't think the price is a good argument in this case.

 

As far as the environmental concerns, I don't disagree one bit that vinegar is safer. However, I think the jury is still out on a used "batch" of OA actually being detrimental to our water supply. I think there are much more harsh substances getting into our water supply (before it's treated of course) like chlorine (bleach), drano, motor oil, gasoline, anti-freeze, salt, and just about anything else that gets poured down the drain or runs off from the street.

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Interesting...

 

Not sure on the calculations there... I don't want to sour this post (LOL!) with too much information on vinegar but it seems like too much vinegar is assumed to be needed for one frame...

 

I only tried vinegar on an entire frame once and I used a cut bicycle shipping box taped into the rough shape of a shallow tray, just slightly bigger than the frame. I threw in some bunched up newspaper to make a sort of nest and then laid a big plastic garbage bag on top of that to make pockets/puddles around outline of the frame. It obviously wasn't fully submerged but I flipped the frame over 1/2 way through... I didn't come close to using even 1 gallon of white Vinegar... It worked like a charm.

 

The next time, I'm going to cut out a rough "1/2 mold" of my frame into a styrofoam packing board that I have and use the same technique hopefully using less vinegar. I'm going to keep that as my semi-permanent vinegar bath mold. I have 2 real nice slightly rusty Mongoose frames on the way from Oklahoma City (a 76 and a 77) this week and I plan to use this newer styrofoam mold "1/2 bath" on them. I'll try and document the process and post it here.

 

BTW, when I said it costs only pennies to use vinegar before, I was mostly referring to the small stuff we all de-rust like bolts, clamps and the like. I don't bother with Oxilic Acid especially to do any small stuff because I don't want to buy a full container of anything I won't fully use, especially when I only need a beer glass of vinegar at most. Plus, it's just more concentrated toxic chemical crap I don't won't lying around the garage...

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So since I am a "STUPID" that uses oxalic acid, I have a question for you enviromental conscious folk what do you do with the dirty vinegar once your done with it?

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So since I am a "STUPID" that uses oxalic acid, I have a question for you enviromental conscious folk what do you do with the dirty vinegar once your done with it?

 

I said "Oxilic Acid is Stupid", I never said people who have used it are stupid. Hey, I've used it too. I just wanted to share a better, safer and cheaper alternative... That's the whole point here.

 

Plus, anyone who can find an avatar like yours Ant, is pretty smart in my books! :wow:

 

Seriously, in terms of disposal of used vinegar, this would be a good start:

 

What Can Go Down the Drain

Homemade cleaning products (*) are safe to dispose down the drain without risk of chemical, physical, or biological harm to

plumbing and wastewater treatment processes.

 

*Read Vinegar

 

What Can Not Go Down the Drain

Cleaning products (e.g., products with words like "toxic", "corrosive", (*) "flammable", or "ignitable" mentioned on the label)

 

*Read Oxilic Acid

Edited by mongoosedrummer

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When I do it it, it's larger parts only. I don't do any small parts.

It seems like most of the forks or frames tend to have survivor decals that I want to keep. OA doesn't harm them at all.

How do decals react to being soaked in Vinegar for a long period of time?

 

I have had great results with OA but don't have an issue with spending a little more to be a bit kinder to the enviroment.

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I say vinegar is better. You can always give the used vinegar to your wife...if vinegar can clean that...it can clean ANYTHING!!!

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Is it the same method, take it out periodically and wipe it down with the white 3m pads, etc?

 

No, I have used a toothbrush to knock some of the heavier stuff off though once soaking. Then once I took the stuff out, wiped it clean and threw a coat of wax on it.

 

 

roflmao......ahh the mind how it wanders...lol

 

 

polishing my spoke as we speak.

 

peanut-butter seems to work really well.

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How do decals react to being soaked in Vinegar for a long period of time?

 

 

they smell yummy.

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