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mrraceinc

My thoughts on Refinishing and Restoring bikes. Flame on Kerry!

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But, there is an "allowance" for things that wear out, like tires, brake pads, cables, etc. A tire that has been replaced with another tire is not the original tire on the bike anymore. Broken reflector on your OG Mongoose? NOS replacement does not make the bike original.

 

You could make a case that paint that is chipped, dinged, scraped or scratched is "worn out" and thus justfies replacement.....

 

Not saying it makes it original, but, it does restore the bike to what it was when it was new, which still then preserves the history of the bike. There is pleasure in viewing both the old, OG condition bikes, and then also the ones restored back to showroom condition.

this arguement does not hold water.

if you replace a reflector, tire exc with one that is nos or whatever, it still retains the "original" character of the manufacture keeping it 100 percent "original" just not "as purchased" and not a "100% survivor"

You cannot sway this arguement towards paint.. no matter what.

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But, there is an "allowance" for things that wear out, like tires, brake pads, cables, etc. A tire that has been replaced with another tire is not the original tire on the bike anymore. Broken reflector on your OG Mongoose? NOS replacement does not make the bike original.

 

You could make a case that paint that is chipped, dinged, scraped or scratched is "worn out" and thus justfies replacement.....

 

Not saying it makes it original, but, it does restore the bike to what it was when it was new, which still then preserves the history of the bike. There is pleasure in viewing both the old, OG condition bikes, and then also the ones restored back to showroom condition.

this arguement does not hold water.

if you replace a reflector, tire exc with one that is nos or whatever, it still retains the "original" character of the manufacture keeping it 100 percent "original" just not "as purchased" and not a "100% survivor"

You cannot sway this arguement towards paint.. no matter what.

 

You replace a single item on a bike, it's no longer original, period. Original and Original Character are not the same thing. You draw the line at paint, someone can draw it at a reflector. That's the key point, when does the "original character" go away. Obviously, it's going to be different for everyone. Arguments galore! It's the same argument as what makes a survivor. Slightly different for everyone, and no consensus.

 

Are we to believe the color baby blue in 1978 is different than baby blue in 2009? That's unlikely. A light blue bike is a light blue bike. It's not as purchased, not original and not a survivor. A nice shiny blue PK Ripper repainted easily can retain the character of an OG bike, it is merely as noted, not original, and not as purchased, but probably brings a happy flashback to me and others. Sure, it does not retain the character of a used, survivor bike, but, it fully contains character of a different nature.

 

I'm equally happy looking at the beat up, nicked bikes as I am the carpet queens. Both have their stories. The stories of the nicked up bikes are usually cooler, but, some of the carpet queens that were saved from the wrecking yard have some pretty great stories, also.

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You draw the line at paint, someone can draw it at a reflector.
You tryin to say that there is someone that is gonna say a bike is not original because of a reflector? I think you are completely out to lunch on that one man...

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You draw the line at paint, someone can draw it at a reflector.
You tryin to say that there is someone that is gonna say a bike is not original because of a reflector? I think you are completely out to lunch on that one man...

 

 

If a reflector has been replaced, the bike is no longer 100% original. That's pretty black and white. That's not the reflector that came with the bike.

 

It's also a pretty silly argument. I'd have it for fun, but, really could give a rip about it. If it's your bike, the historical significance of the bike is yours, not anyone elses. Make it the bike you want it to be. Accept the input and advice to help perhaps make a good decision, but, do it to make yourself happy. I just think it's a little unfair to expect Person A (owner) to preserve a bike to the criteria of Person B (non-owner).

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I guess with growing up in a small town my mentality is totally different. We didn't even lock our doors at night. My parents moved back to that same small town and my dad still leaves his keys in the his truck on the floor. Not the smartest thing to do but he does. I grew up in a place where you aren't looking at everyone you meet as someone that is out to get you. Oh ya I also still will stop and help a woman change her tire if she has a flat or help someone push their car off the road if it is broke down or out of gas and probably would give them a ride if they needed on too. If the person that needs help was a minor I wouldn't give them ride if I was alone but if I had someone with me I still would. That is just me. It may come back to bite me in the as one day and if it does so be it. I would rather be the guy that helps someone out. I didn't swindle anyone out of a bike. I gave her exactly what she asked for it and offered her a bike for replacement as well.

 

 

+1 .... A great attitude in my opinion...

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In general I like original finished bikes. I can honestly say, unless it's a rider, I probably would not buy a newly refinished bike, BUT, I did spray bomb this little gem in the late 80's,..

 

cruiserfront-1.jpg

 

and this in the late 70's..

 

5-24-2007-5-1.jpg

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Quoting myself from 1 year ago, because the same basic principles apply........Hell I might just make this my signature.

 

Everyone wants to hear that the bike they toiled on and fits their image of perfection is the shit. Guess what sparky, not everyone makes the t-ball team! Not from our day and age anyhow. Grow up, man up, and take the blows as they come along.

 

This site and all the others started and continue with one main goal, preservation of history. Hence the monikers Old School, Vintage, Museum. And preservation at it's core is about originality. You all can dicker about all day and night ad nauseam as to degrees of original. The truth is the more original the better. No way around it. Lack of originality doesn't make your bike worse, just not better. Simple huh?

 

The size of the community has grown exponentially, more demand and less supply. Someone is going to get left holding the bag (not making the team). So be it, get used to it.

 

So if you build a bike and someone points out a lack of originality, you knew it was coming. Or would it be better if we all just sat around blowing sweet nothings in each others ear about what awsome bikes we have? This is the number one reason I am so much less involved in this, because I want my shit to be squared away and I am willing to take the hits if it's not. Vice verse, I got sick of getting my ass chapped for pointing out discrepancies in a bike. So I just chose the path of least resistance. And I think the community has suffered because so many people have done the same. Lots of knowledge has disappeared from the scene for this very reason.

 

This is my opinion, you can like it or not. Most times it really only sounds good in my head with the other voices in my head anyhow with the voices.

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I just think it's a little unfair to expect Person A (owner) to preserve a bike to the criteria of Person B (non-owner).

 

 

Well, this site as a majority does have expectations, standards, values, or whatever you want to call them. The sites on down the hall have their own as well. We fully recognize it is your right to do with your bike what you will. When your standards don't mesh with the ones held here, our members will disagree. If you don't want critique, don't post and leave yourself open to it.

 

Also I am get tired of folks saying our members "get upset" about restorations and repops, etc. To disagree about someone refinishing an awesome purple GJS Freestyler does not mean anyone was upset. It is a disagreement. I often think people who say we are upset, are upset themselves that we disagree and make lame statements like that.

 

This views of the site and its members are not for everyone.

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That was well said David!

 

 

Thanks Night Bird! Sometimes I think I like to listen to myself almost as much as I think people like to read what I write.........Ouch, the voices!

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I am going to chime in here.

I have collected Curio and Relic firearms for years. They are basically any rifle, or pistol, fifty years or older that the BATF categorizes as a curio or relic firearm. This means it has some kind of collectible value to some people.

I mainly collected rifles from the WWII era.

Because this is such a popular hobby, there are many websites with forums dedicated to collecting C&R weapons. There are a wide range of collectors out there. Some believe that a given firearm should be left in original condition. Some don't.

Let's take a 1943 Mosin Nagant 91/30 ex-sniper rifle for instance (I have one.) There are some that would take the rifle, drill and tap the receiver for a reproduction, or original scope mount and attach a repro, or original scope on it. Replace the straight bolt with a turned down bolt like the original sniper rifle did and call it good. To many this conversion is heresy. The rifle in its original, retired-from-service form, has now been irresversibly altered, thereby destroying the true, historical value.

Another collector might buy an after market scope mount that replaces the the original military sight without permanently altering the rifle. The original sight can be replaced, keeping the rifle in its original, retired form.

Others might not do anything to it at all.

If the rifle is damaged in some way, a collector would most likely replace/ repair the broken parts to restore it to its original configuration, but it still wouldn't be original per se.

All of these situations can effect the value of the rifle to collectors. Anywhere from worthless for the rescoped, cobbled together "sniper" rifle, to highly desirable for the untouched, unaltered version. A repaired rifle can still be valuable, but not as much as one that was undamaged and left in its original state.

Now, let's take my Quad. Some time after I bought it, the paint started peeling off. Bad. I don't think the paint prep was that great, or something. Anyway, it looked like doo-doo. So I stripped it to bare metal and spray painted it. It turned out pretty decent, and as it got chipped up from riding and racing, I would strip it down and repaint it. Originality was out the door. I now want to get it powder coated for the durability and because I want it to look good so I can ride it and be cool. Will it be original? Not as far as the paint goes. Has it lost some of its value? To other collectors, probably so. But not to me. I love that bike. It is the coolest looptail on the planet and I would sure rather have it that any STR-1 (heh, heh. just had to get that in there.

I guess what all this blathering on is about is this, and this is just my opinion: A bike in its original unaltered form would ulitmately be the most valuable, and most desirable. But, if its tweaked somehow, fix it. Repaint it if it is so thrashed that metal integrity is compromised.

Just to paint a bike to get that color you always wanted is not the way to go if the paint is ok. If the original candy red was still good on my bike I would leave it. Since it is not, I will paint it a color I like since the originality is shot.

One more thing to consider is how many of our bikes are really "original?"

In my case, I built the bike from components. Bought the frame and worked from there. I broke hubs and replaced them. replaced bars. Replaced forks. Rims. Cranks. Even if a bike was bought as a complete, parts get replaced due to damage and wear, so its original state has been altered.

 

Whew. That was long winded...

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One more thing to consider is how many of our bikes are really "original?"
THAT is the entire point...... there aren't that many original, so why ruin the ones that are?

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I'm fine either way. I'm just down for riding and checkin' out cool rides. I like different things to look at. It takes all kinds I guess.

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Mohawk Skull Guy with a Guitar in a Circle,

I am with you dude. If it is a straight out of the box, old school, original condition bike, leave it as is. But, that is my opinion. There are a lot of people who figure it's their bike, and want it like this or that. It's a shame, but that's what happens.

Like somebody said earlier, just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we all just can't get along and love each other anyway. :)

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Oh, hi. I don't really have anything to say about the topic, I was just looking for the sticky thread where you post the current condition of your bike and ask permission to refinish it or not.

 

Oh, there's the search thingy on the upper right. I'll try that.

 

Ok, thanks.

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I'm fine either way. I'm just down for riding and checkin' out cool rides. I like different things to look at. It takes all kinds I guess.

 

I agree with you. Restore it , keep it O.G what ever, as long as it's what you wanted it to look like when you are done with it . It's funny how so many people changed since I started collecting ( of course people mature, I get that). Before it was restore it as you wanted it bitd and now if someone posts a restored bike the O.G police ( which these guys are the same ones that made me want to get into restoring the bikes that I wanted bitd.) come out of the woodwork and tell them they shouldn't have done it. The history of the bike is still there, just the scratches and dents are gone. I do agree some bikes should not be restored, and do like that members are swaping with other members to preserve these bikes and parts. But if some one posts a bike that they couldn't have bitd and they are proud of it, maybe say nice bike, good job. Not "I can't beleive you did that to an original finish, why would you do that". People post pics to share the bike they built and are proud of what they built. It is what it is.

 

 

Rob-

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:writing:

 

Dear extreme bike restoration dudes,

 

As you are free to do what you want with YOUR bike; others are also free to do as they like with THEIR opinions.

 

Your Pal,

The Site

 

 

 

 

I need to get up a warning on the homepage a.s.a.p it seems: Caution - This Site Contains Opinions; Tender egos enter only at their own risk.

 

 

 

I don't know... just putting this out there -- it seems to me that if some of you would "introspect" a bit you'd find it to be the case that your offense and bewilderment at other people's aversion to non-essential restoration, and their "gall" for saying so in a public forum that is in fact oriented largely toward discussing old school bmx history and culture, is really perhaps nothing more than a defensive mental posture that arises from your own insecurities about the matter of bike restoration. Maybe not... but if this is not the case, and if you are sure of your "it's mine and I'll do as I please" conviction, then why is it so troubling what anyone else thinks?! Nevermind kudos and strokes. You love what you did? Awesome. Isn't that enough? Granted... sometimes criticism strays from the constructive to the petty and seemingly personal. It's true, it would be better if it didn't come to that.

 

 

Look at that guy with the lavender GJS freestyler. He posted his bike in January. Got some feedback. Decided to do a full restoration in spite of that. Posted the restoration the other day. Got some feedback, not all of which is positive... BUT, he does not curl up in a ball or lash out. He calmly replied that he did it his way in spite of it all. Ok. Enjoy dude. THERE'S a guy who, at least it seems thus far, is secure enough in his own decision that he is not unnecessarily rattled by the views of others. Thanks for not losing your shit because other people dare to have THEIR OWN opinion about what you did to YOUR OWN bike on a PUBLIC FORUM, my man.

 

:cheers:

 

I edited this... I'm trying to reign it in and sincerely speak to the divergence of opinion and avoid saying things that will be offensive. It's hard because as we can see already, it's an upsetting issue in some cases. I do get why some people get bent... no doubt, at times our points of view on either side of an issue can be too derisive in tone. Even when not intended...people can be more sensitive and in turn comments can be more provocative than we expect and intend. What I left here after the edit may still seem too much. That tendency is strong on the internet. It takes discipline not to stray from strict cordiality. However we see it... it should not be grounds for enmity between us. My apologies if I've gone too far in any of this.

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You are right.

 

The rhetoric is at times not productive. I see the truth in that observation. Absolutely.

 

 

As for the last bit... I have more or less come to terms with the fact that the truth is -- the so-called "purist" point of view is in reality a minority view. There are way more people in the community at large that don't subscribe to anything approaching the standards regularly espoused here. None of us are so oblivious that we don't know other sites are more accommodating toward the everything goes approach. Other sites are more accommodating toward reproductions. While member site support dips to ever lower percentages... I've turned down multiple potential sponsors for what I discerned as being too closely associated with reproduction or even being too closely associated with what I deemed an unsavory affinity towards refinishing and refinishing groupies.

 

:Idunno:

We should be wary of being overly "reactionary"... but I sure don't want to stray into the realm of being a clown acadamy either. There's a balance there somewhere. Honestly I think we are pretty close to that balance. We definitely could stand further refinement. For sure. But that said... the kind of "balance" I'm content with may not reel in the masses or the bucks. I can live with that. Definitely. Are we our own worse enemies or best ally? Real hard to say... strictly a matter of perspective I suppose. But from where I stand, it looks like our approach is generally an ally. We are just a niche player... but we at least maintain a little integrity. I'll choose that over money or web traffic. Even if it extinguishes us. :)

 

 

ps. "purist" is kind of silly but I use the term because we all instantly know what is entailed by it, at least within the context of discussions of the bmx community.

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Really, people will take their money and go to a different site? Did you really just post that? So what, we'll have 5.99% of members that support the site instead of 6%? Big loss. We don't bend our beliefs around people tender ego's for site support reasons. We don't want your money that bad. That has to be the funniest thing I have read around here in ages.

 

We have been "preaching" the "restore only when necessary" for years and people still stick around. We don't frown upon refinish, just when it was obviously a good original finish and someone destroys it by re-doing it.

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:lol:

 

FTW... middle aged bike dudes are so fragile at times. Real shit up; clowns on motomags down.

 

 

"Repop this 2.0" shirt is needed now :wink:... but that would be a bit much :flower:

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