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KenC

70’s Redline serial numbers vs years

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I compiled these from researching Redline and Linn Kastan over a 6 year period, also from comparing pictures, frame styles, serial numbers I found online and from numerous interviews I've read that Linn Kastan had done.

 

These are not exact but the closest year breakdown of early Redline serial numbers I’ve been able to come up with.

 

I’d really like to get this broken down to more exact numbers so if you have any info that would help please post it up. Pics would be great, as well as any printed info you may have that helps set a time line on years and model changes.

 

 

 

74

100 to 260

 

75

260 to 800

 

76

800 to 5300

 

77

5300 to 10000

 

78

10000 to 20000

 

early 79

20000 to 24000?

 

late 79

340000 to 343000

 

 

There are also some frames built in Australia that has no serial number and some with serial numbers in the 30000 range that were also built in Australia.

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Here's an MX-II. Based on your info, 1980. 346810. I did the measuring of the BB height and weight to confirm it's not MX-III. If that info I read for telling them apart is inaccurate, let me know so I can edit my comment and save embarrassment!

 

IMGA0822.JPG

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This is killer stuff Ken, really! Well done! :naughty:

 

Research Contrib. rocks! : ) Next is Webco serial #'s !!! Hahaha! :)

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here's some info a good buddy. I'll ask him to chime in here too ...



here's an approximate guide to help you fellas out with your American or Japanese made frames.
if your serial is nothing like what i'm writing then you may have an Aussie or NZ frame.

back in 1974 the first frames started at 100 and went up to about 1000 by 1975.
1976 went til about 5,200
1977 up til about 10,000
early 1979 up til about 23,000
then in mid 1979 redline went to what we call the 6 digit serial that started with a 3. note that these figures are for US made frames. i have yet to see a frame with a 33**** serial so i think it may be safe to say that a mid 1979 serial would be 34**** and gone through to early 1980 as well. then the 35**** serials would have started and gone through 1980, 1981 36**** etc also these serials in no way can depict what style of frame you have. when i get time i will post up some info to help tell the difference between microline, the 2 types of proline and the 2 types of mx-II.

along side the serial change in 1979 came the Japanese made mx-III completes. these had a serial and a redline stamp on the BB.
the serial refered to as the "R" serial frames, these went approx like this:
RI-1979
RJ-1980
RA-1981
RB-1982
RC-1983
RD-1984
RE-1985

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Here’s a little more info that I had gathered in my research that I should have posted above.

 

There were 637 first gen Squarebacks built, plus the few Looptails which brings the serial numbers to around 740 plus the 37 Monoshocks built in 75 which is how I come up with the 800 range for the cut off between 75 and 76

 

The first 76 Squarebacks built had a larger top tube, I know of one person that has one and the serial number is in the 900’s. I know they went back to the smaller tubes on the frames in the 1000’s do to pics I have found. The 16” Squarebacks came in somewhere in the upper 2000’s.

 

There are rumors of a Squareback cruiser built, but I have found no info to prove this so I feel it is just that, “a rumor”

 

The cut off between 76 and 77 is somewhat fuzzy, I’ve found Squarebacks with serial numbers in the 5200’s and I’ve found MX II’s with serial numbers in the 5300’s which is how I come up with the 5300 range. I know there are a few that say they made Squarebacks in the first few months of 77 but I heard more people that say the opposite and I’ve found no info that proves they did make them in 77. I also know they started to build the Proline in March of 77 and the lowest Proline serial number I have found is 61xx and that is on a local Proline still owned by the original owner, which is also a non gusset Proline.

 

77 was a year full of changes for Redline, starting with the introduction of the MX II which was basically a Squareback with the back half changed. Then with the production of the Proline that started in March. The early Prolines also had no gusset below the head tube and they had a “PL” stamped after the serial number, I’m not sure how long they did this or on how many they did like this. They also moved from Northridge to Chatsworth in late 77 which brings a few more changes, one being the switch to the vertical head tube decal (around serial number 8000) and at this time they added a “0” to the beginning of the serial numbers (084xx) which I believe was done at the new factory so they would be ready for the 5 digit serial numbers in the 10000’s for 78. Also in late 77 the MX II went from having 1 bend in the seat stays to 2 bends for extra tire clearance. (around serial number 09000)

 

By March of 78 they had built 10500 frames, (serial number 10600) the serial numbers at the end of 78 are also a little fuzzy, I originally though the switch was around 22000 but I have found no US serial numbers above 24000 and since they carried the 5 digit numbers into the first half of 79 I think it’s around the 20000 or even the 19000 range.

 

Mid 79 is when they started having complete bikes built at the Kawamura factory in Japan and when I think they started the 34xxxx 6 digit serial numbers on the US made frames.

 

 

All this is what I found in my research, I want to see pics and any other info to help narrow the numbers down.

 

I especially want to see pics of frames and their serial numbers that are in the following ranges.

 

700 – 1200

5100 – 5400

09000 – 10000

Any larger tube Squarebacks.

Also any pics of Prolines with serial numbers lower than 8200

 

I have a Proline with serial number 8400 which is a Chatsworth built 77

Edited by KenC

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I have heard that the 74/75 Squarebacks were prone to cranking at the gusset. The factory did take back broken frames and repair them. The fix was a new gusset. I believe it was a two piece gusset in the style of the 76 frame. Darren Chan had one of these frames many years back. Have you stumbled in to any of these frames Ken? Nice work on the numbers!

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Thanks for sharing your research Ken. Wish I had something to add but I have way more questions about my stuff than answers.

 

I'd love to see the same treatment for forks, bars, and other Redline parts added.

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I have a 79' serial # RI 01289 waiting to be built. I found it a few years back in the backyard of an old bike shop that closed down back in the early 90's. IT has fresh paint and is waiting to be built now.

MX II.JPG

P9030015.JPG

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There are rumors of a Squareback cruiser built, but I have found no info to prove this so I feel it is just that, “a rumor”

 

 

 

The Squareback cruiser is not a rumor it is a fact. From what I know there was only one of them ever made and it was made for Bob Phillips owner of Dirt Master. it was also stolen out of his garage some years ago. There are very few pics around of it but they are out there. Here are two pictures that I know of. Bob Phillips is riding it in both pictures. The third pic is a little extra bonus.

redline cruiser2.jpg

redline cruiser1.jpg

006.jpg

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There are rumors of a Squareback cruiser built, but I have found no info to prove this so I feel it is just that, “a rumor”

 

 

 

The Squareback cruiser is not a rumor it is a fact. From what I know there was only one of them ever made and it was made for Bob Phillips owner of Dirt Master. it was also stolen out of hisgarage some years ago. There are very few pics around of it but they are out there. Here are two pictures that I know of. Bob Phillips is riding it in both pictures. The third pic is a little extra bonus.

redline cruiser2.jpg

redline cruiser1.jpg

006.jpg

 

 

This is exactly why I started this thread.

 

Thanks for posting the pics. I heard about that bike but I was unable to find any pics of it and without seeing pics myself I was on the fence about it's existence.

 

Do you know when it was built? 75 maybe?

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I have heard that the 74/75 Squarebacks were prone to cranking at the gusset. The factory did take back broken frames and repair them. The fix was a new gusset. I believe it was a two piece gusset in the style of the 76 frame. Darren Chan had one of these frames many years back. Have you stumbled in to any of these frames Ken? Nice work on the numbers!

 

I hadn't seen anything about the two piece gusset repair but I did find info on a 75 that had been repaired at the factory with a 76 gusset, this frame is now in Australia.

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This is exactly why I started this thread.

Thanks for posting the pics. I heard about that bike but I was unable to find any pics of it and without seeing pics myself I was on the fence about it's existence.

 

Do you know when it was built? 75 maybe?

 

No problem. I love this stuff! The pic of Bob on his 24" Schwinn Typhoon was from the Dec 74 issue of BMX news. and as you can see the advertisement is dated from the May 75 issue. From what I can tell BMX news only had a one month lead time. So some time in the first half of 1975 would be a safe guess as to when that frame was made.smile.gif.

 

Here is another observation to consider. look at the head tube on the "Redline prototype" listed in the thread posted by Byron Friday. Byron's thread Then take a look at the size of the head tube on Bo Phillips Reline cruiser. The head tube on the cruiser looks kind of big don't you think. Mybe Bob was running the same setup on his cruiser.

 

redline proto.jpg

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Bob is wearing Thom Lund's helmet in the first ad.......useless fact #356

 

I always thought that was Thom.....

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Bob is wearing Thom Lund's helmet in the first ad.......useless fact #356

 

I always thought that was Thom.....

 

 

Thom did work for Bob and ride for dirt master at one point. So anything is possible. I do know Bob raced now and again But Thom riding the bike like that makes more sense.

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I have heard that the 74/75 Squarebacks were prone to cranking at the gusset. The factory did take back broken frames and repair them. The fix was a new gusset. I believe it was a two piece gusset in the style of the 76 frame. Darren Chan had one of these frames many years back. Have you stumbled in to any of these frames Ken? Nice work on the numbers!

 

I hadn't seen anything about the two piece gusset repair but I did find info on a 75 that had been repaired at the factory with a 76 gusset, this frame is now in Australia.

 

 

I owned that frame at one time. It was a 74/75 with a 76 style two hole gusset. It was repaired very nice, but you could still see the crack where they welded it up. I jokingly called it a 75-1/2. I put it up on ebay about 3-4 yrs ago, and off to OZ it went.

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I have heard that the 74/75 Squarebacks were prone to cranking at the gusset. The factory did take back broken frames and repair them. The fix was a new gusset. I believe it was a two piece gusset in the style of the 76 frame. Darren Chan had one of these frames many years back. Have you stumbled in to any of these frames Ken? Nice work on the numbers!

 

I hadn't seen anything about the two piece gusset repair but I did find info on a 75 that had been repaired at the factory with a 76 gusset, this frame is now in Australia.

 

 

I owned that frame at one time. It was a 74/75 with a 76 style two hole gusset. It was repaired very nice, but you could still see the crack where they welded it up. I jokingly called it a 75-1/2. I put it up on ebay about 3-4 yrs ago, and off to OZ it went.

 

Glynn Hicks has it now, at least he did the last time I talked to him.

 

I wish I would have seen it for sale, it would have had a permanent home. I read an interview with Lynn Kastan where he talked about that exact frame, and how they designed the gusset to prevent it from cracking. If I remember correctly, the 74/75 frame was repaired before the 76 style frames were made.

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I have heard that the 74/75 Squarebacks were prone to cranking at the gusset. The factory did take back broken frames and repair them. The fix was a new gusset. I believe it was a two piece gusset in the style of the 76 frame. Darren Chan had one of these frames many years back. Have you stumbled in to any of these frames Ken? Nice work on the numbers!

 

I hadn't seen anything about the two piece gusset repair but I did find info on a 75 that had been repaired at the factory with a 76 gusset, this frame is now in Australia.

 

 

I owned that frame at one time. It was a 74/75 with a 76 style two hole gusset. It was repaired very nice, but you could still see the crack where they welded it up. I jokingly called it a 75-1/2. I put it up on ebay about 3-4 yrs ago, and off to OZ it went.

 

Glynn Hicks has it now, at least he did the last time I talked to him.

 

I wish I would have seen it for sale, it would have had a permanent home. I read an interview with Lynn Kastan where he talked about that exact frame, and how they designed the gusset to prevent it from cracking. If I remember correctly, the 74/75 frame was repaired before the 76 style frames were made.

 

 

such an historical frame, in its own way. But when it was for sale, everyone just thumbed their nose at it... Go figure?? Can't remember what it sold for? but not that much as I recall....

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Here is a 74 squareback with the serial number on the headtube. One squareback in the other picture has a 1-1/8" front tubes serial number 962.

 

 

 

 

HPIM0215.jpg

 

HPIM0525.jpg

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Here is the serial number on the bottom bracket shell (22479) of my Micro-Line. Last year KenC identified it on the museum as a 1979 which jibes with my memory of when I got it. Gonna start the clean up on it and picking up the last few parts to put it back together.

IMG_0158_2.jpg

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Cool stash of Squarebacks! :nah.I.mean:

Thank's. I do have more. :nana:

 

 

Quit bragging Shawn and send me that 962 frame.

 

:ROTFLMAO:

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Cool stash of Squarebacks! :nah.I.mean:

Thank's. I do have more. :nana:

 

 

Quit bragging Shawn and send me that 962 frame.

 

:ROTFLMAO:

Great thread on the redlines. Keep up the good work, Ken. :Praise:

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